PETE SPEAKS HIS MIND !
From: Pete Sass
To: Boudewijn Lutgerink
Pete Speaks his mind !
Pete Speaks his mind !
Visual FoxPro 8
Friday, April 11, 2003 4:19:01 AM
This message was rated by:
> As a VFP programmer I am indeed worried about the fact that the MS marketing on VFP stinks.
> Any possibility I see I will use to "tell the world" about VFP.
> Today I found an article on
about the diminishing of .NET another blunder of MS marketing.
> I used that to send the following reaction, I just wanted to share this with yer'all.
> In case any of you might see possibilities to "tell the world" about the fox please take your chance and do so.
> I do not foresee any increased marketing efforts coming from MS now that they did shoot themselves in the foot once more.
> Any idea in this context is welcome.
> Indeed I think, as a developer with 10+ years experience, that from the start MS never gave any good thought about what to achieve with .NET.
> I made it thus .NJET for me.
> Comes to mind what my late father learned me as a kid: "Something you cannot explain in clear and concise words is not really thought through."
> In my not so humble opinion, I think this .NET thing falls in the same category as developing application based on a browser interface.
> Browser interfaces simply miss the immediate interaction with users that desktop interfaces do have.
> The argument that in this way (using browser interfaces) databases anywhere on the world could be contacted is overruled with the use of MySQL, the ODBC
> driver that ships with it makes it possible for any development tool to contact a database anywhere on the world.
> Whatever people say about MS as a marketing machine, the marketing folks at Redmond seem to forget that MS has indeed one extremely stable development
> tool that is quite under-estimated, in all the fuzz around cool, fantastic,hot (or whatever you can come up with) .NET. I am talking here about MS
> Visual FoxPro.
> In its 8th version already VFP has developed from a tool that has an xBase background to a tool that can be used to handle data of any source with ease
> at an unbeatable speed and with good OOP implementation. Big applause for the VFP programmers team in Redmond for their efforts!
> Comparing development of applications in VFP vs the same activity in .NET is like comparing the speed of a ferrari (VFP) to a T-ford (.NJET).
> Only about 25% of the time is needed to develop an app in VFP compared to .NJET.
> CEO's and decisionmakers in any type of business should be clear in their desires for quick and flawless development of the apps they need.
> Another encouraging fact is the attempts of mr Paul McNett (
) to make VFP work on the linux platform using Wine. He is making incredible
> This shows that the development efforts of those programmers using VFP is not restricted to the windows platform but can be extended to other, fast
> growing platforms, as well.
> One of the main reasons for using the predecessor of VFP, FP(W), was that this tool could develop code for Windows, Unix, Dos and MAC.
> With these efforts those times seem to return once more.
> The datacentric language of VFP and its OOP implementation make it a tool of choice for any developer who has a desire to develop applications fast.
> The possibility to implement any COM component, developed in eg C++ or VB, with ease and the fact that apps developed in VFP can serve as COM components for
> other languages make VFP the flexible tool any developer is looking for!
> Boudewijn Lutgerink
> The Netherlands
> Experience is the knowledge you get immediately AFTER you actually needed it...
Hi - Pete's Input
I am a multi-language developer. I develop in VB 6.0, C++, Clarion 4GL, and Oracle 2000 Developer.
I now am learning Visual
... "Just a Beginner!"
I have been involved with Fox since 1986, under Fox Version 1.02. I was one of the original beta
testers with Fox, b4 Microsoft bought out Fox Software. So I understand the Fox intellect, and
their main thrusts.
Micosoft took in most of the key Fox developers, and I have seen the main goals of Fox being
retained into all the upgrades. Backward compatibility is alway there. Database connectivity
has always been there. Strength in string, numeric, and date manipulations have always been
there. Database as a primary thrust has always been there... and stronger today than ever !
In this I do have to say "beat me if you wish !", Microsoft has done an excellent job at retaining
and enhancing this product.
Marketing is where the real issue really is, "where the rubber meet the road."
Why on God's earth Microsoft picked Visual Basic as their flagship, I have no idea. I walked into
my current job as a system analyst, and also the Oracle DBA. Our corporate standard was
Visual Basic, and over the first year in my new position I challenged my corporation on the
development language of choice. I guess this was a hards sell... due to the marketing that
MS does on it's languages.
However, patience has paid off. I have proven beyond a shadow of doubt that VFP is the better
language of choice. I have written letters to corporate over this several times. My last letter
used these words:
"Writting your new application with Visual Basic is like trying to eat soup with a fork !"
I did not receive a reply.... they just gave up.
I had a cororate IT representive visit out IT department, and showed him how easy it
was to create a Word Object / Excel object and automate Word and Excel using VFP.
I as well demonstrated to him how I could connect to virtually any backend using VFP.
My supervisor, who is our team leader and I am the backup team leader; so in our
workplace there is little distinction over levels. We operation on a team group type of
concensus. She has definately been converted. She has seen devlopment time drop
dramitically over the past 2 years. In real time I can produce the same application
using VFP in about 1/4 the time it would take using VB 6.0
On top of that I can extract data using VFP with datamining to what-ever the
I have proven to my IT group that VFP is highly optimized in a multi-user environment.
I rate native VFP dbf's as 3 times faster that a native Oracle backend on a large multi-user
network environment. I have done the bench-marking to prove this.
We rercently added a new employee to out IT department. He came from a Visual
Basic background. He has been totally blown away by what he can do using VFP,
another VFP convert. You may see posts by Travis Pick on the forum, he works with
me. He after 3 months using VFP is at a total loss why MS would push Visual Basic.
I guess a lot of times we are directed from coporate staff, and a lot of times we do not
push. Well... push !
My message to you all is it is up to you. Makes a business case and layout the pros and
cons. Money talks... and labour hours for developers are a primary consideration of
corporate IT people.
This took me a year, but I am unchallenged now in my position. I have been at coporate
IT meetings and have litteral taken some apart in what language to develop in. Not to be
cruel, but sitting down at my workstation and walking though what I can do has been my
best method to promote VFP.
As I told Gale today, "Who says corporate standards are correct !"
Money talk... do not loose sight of this prime directive !
For the member of this forum that know me... and have seen any code examples that I
have published. I am not fancy... I concentrate on very basic principals in code.
VFP is a simply language... nothing fancy to do fancy things. If you understand:
If you understand;
If you understand:
If you understand basic OOP:
If you have a beginners understanding of Select sytax....
SELECT [feld list]
ORDER BY [order fields]
You can work wonders in this very simple programming language !
Pete from the Great White North. (Only in Canada, ay.) Over and Out ...
marketing of VFP
Posted by Boudewijn Lutgerink @ 4/2/2003 9:42:59 AM
RE: marketing of VFP
Posted by Rene Relucio @ 4/2/2003 2:20:07 PM
Good news. Our VFP, among others, for delivery!
Posted by Rene Relucio @ 4/5/2003 12:35:23 PM
RE: Good news. Our VFP, among others, for deliv...
Posted by Erik Gomez @ 4/5/2003 4:17:00 PM
Posted by Rene Relucio @ 4/8/2003 7:43:44 AM
RE: Rest assured
Posted by Boudewijn Lutgerink @ 4/8/2003 9:24:35 AM
Remains to be done.
Posted by Rene Relucio @ 4/9/2003 9:27:03 AM
Pete Speaks his mind !
Posted by Pete Sass @ 4/11/2003 4:19:01 AM
Foxite Book !!
Posted by Caij Gomez @ 4/11/2003 7:38:38 AM
RE: Foxite Book !!
Posted by Boudewijn Lutgerink @ 4/14/2003 9:47:37 AM
RE: Pete Speaks his mind !
Posted by Boudewijn Lutgerink @ 4/14/2003 9:15:50 AM